INTERVIEW ULCEROUS PHLEGM

"Even my parents still tell me today how nice they all were, and so polite at the breakfast table together at my house." 

I recently discovered on some sites an English version of this interview with Bernd from the legendary Bavarian grinders Ulcerous Phlegm, originally published in German (read here) in November 2017 via Systematic Desensitization Zine. Well, Ulcerous Phlegm were - as can be seen from the numerous cover versions of their most famous track "Consequences"- an internationally known and influential band. So an English version makes all the more sense, which I would not like to withhold from you at this point, of course.

Here is an interview with Bernd, who used to play bass and do vocals for the legendary Bavarian grinders Ulcerous Phlegm, who disbanded in 1993. I'll start the time machine...here you can see Bernd in action, wearing a chic Shelter shirt...

Hey Bernd, let's get started. First of all, I have to say by way of introduction that I - born in 1978 - never really got to know Ulcerous Phlegm during their active time. When you disbanded, I was 15 years old... I came across the name Ulcerous Phlegm from time to time over the decades, but I only really took notice of the band when the discography was released via Power It Up. Did you hear from several people who felt the same way or did the Discography CD/LP rather go to the people who already knew you anyway (although a slimmed down Discography CD had been released before or even two ??)?

Hi! Yes, you are definitely not the only one. Thanks to the discography on Power-It-Up I even got in touch with people who are now just 20 years old and interested in grindcore / death metal of the 80s and early 90s. But that was also a time that was style-defining. Nevertheless, I don't think you should only dig in the past. Musically, every decade has exciting developments to show. 

At the same time, this discography also brought me back into contact with people I had completely lost track of for almost 30 years! That's very exciting, because of course everyone has developed in some way and the common denominator doesn't necessarily have to be there any more. So it's all the nicer when it harmonises again despite all these years.

Around 2005 there was an attempt to release an Ulcerous Phlegm discography as a double CD, but that was dropped. In 2008, a tape was released under the name "Make-Up your mind" on an American label, where I put together old practice and live recordings. It was fun! But the discography on Power-It-Up is definitely the more "official" one in terms of the completeness of the recordings relevant to Ulcerous Phlegm.

When we do this interview, it seems like a journey back in time. When you formed, it was around the time when bands like Atrocity, Morgoth, Lemming Project, Blood or Protector (besides the well-known ones like Kreator, Sodom and Destruction) were starting out or had been around for a while. In the punk scene I can think of bands like Pink Flamingos, M.V.D. or SM-70, internationally in the grind scene there were bands such as Agathocles, Dead Infection, Carcass, Naplam Death, Extreme Noise Terror, Repulsion, from neighbouring Austria  grind and death bands such as Pungent Stench, Miasma, Disharmonic Orchestra or Disastrous Murmur. Are you still or again in contact with some of them ? And with which bands were you in contact at that time ? In which "scenes" did you situate yourselves at that time ?

Wow, I could write novels about that now.

In retrospect, there were two decisive reasons for me to found Ulcerous Phlegm.

Shortly before, I had been elected as the first board member of our local youth centre. At that time, in order to see all the cool concerts, we went to the neighbouring Baden Württemberg (Napalm Death, Heresy, Fear Of God, Extreme Noise Terror, ...) and I thought to myself: Why not try that here in our sleepy little Bavarian town? When I got a call saying "There are some incredibly cool bands from Austria - Pungent Stench, Disharmonic Orchestra and Disastrous Murmur - who want to play in Germany, but unfortunately they can't play in Geislingen etc. on the planned weekend", I invited them to our JuZe. It was just great! Even my parents still tell me today how nice they all were, and so polite at the breakfast table together at my house. I'm still in touch with Alex, the drummer of Pungent Stench at the time, from time to time. We share another passion: the cinema of the 60s and 70s.

After a long break, I've been in touch with the Blood guys again for about two years. Next year I'm planning to run a marathon together with Martin, the singer. That is our current common hobbyhorse...

The fact that we were allowed to play together with Carcass in 1990 was due to our friendship with Atrocity at that time. We had many contacts to other bands and my parents' mailbox was always full in this pre-internet age.

To name a few more names from closer contact: Dead, Gut, Growing Movement, Distract Reality, ... The scenes were not so separate. Which is no wonder, because bands from the early days also drew their influences from hardcore/punk and metal. In terms of "spirit", however, I would assign Ulcerous Phlegm more to hardcore. We always had political or socially critical lyrics. Even if they were articulated in a way that was difficult to understand.

Oh shit, I forgot "reason 2" of the foundation of U.P.: A buddy of mine played guitar insanely well and later moved to the Ruhr area to play with Deathrow. He once told me: "The noise you always listen to, you can make it yourself." Yes, he was (tendentially) right.   

Haha, cool, which confirms once again that people who listen to or make extreme music tend to be more sociable and social...have your parents ever seen Pungent Stench videos or cover artwork,haha ? As you mention this passion for cinema of the 60's or 70's: I'm really into Edgar Wallace or Doctor Mabuse movies. Does that also belong to that time, do you also like something from that time or are you completely different ?

No, that fits in quite well in any case! Every year in June I organise a film festival called KultKino, where I show films from original 35mm film reels. To name a few titles from the last few years: Godzilla vs. Smogmonster, Magdalena - Possessed by the Devil, The Killer (with Klaus Kinski), Harley Riders, Zombi (Romero, 1978), Sadomona - The Island of the Devilish Women, Party of Horrors, King Kong vs. Godzilla, Revenge of the 1000 Cats, ... here's the website: https://kultkino.de Maybe it's also interesting for your readers. Uwe (ex-Dead) and other old hands from back then are often there.

Hey cool, if I should ever linger down there again, I'll drop by ! The next question follows on from that: According to some pages on the net Ulcerous Phlegm came from Höchstadt, I honestly thought you were originally from Augsburg, also because Zong played with Inferno. Apart from that, I've seen that there were overlaps with the grinders from Certified Insane and a thrash metal band called Soulstorm. You play with Deep, I even own the first LP, someone from Augsburg sold it to me, through him I also got to know your label Dhyhana Records, which has already released some pretty crazy stuff musically...do you still do that ?

Oh, maybe I should draw a family tree around Ulcerous Phlegm and their band connections.

I'm the only one from Höchstädt and since I was responsible for the post office, this address has probably stuck in my mind. U.P. was founded in Augsburg, at the Rockfabrik. That was in July 1989.

Inferno were founded in 1982, as far as I know. Zong came to us when Inferno disbanded for the first time and I don't think Soulstorm existed any more.

Certified Insane, on the other hand, are still around in 2017! It's the band that Blinki, U.P.-drummer of the first hour, founded.

And Zong and I have been active with Deep for 24 years now. This year, for example, we released a cooperation 7" with Seven Minutes Of Nausea.

Not too much is happening on Dhyana Records at the moment, except for a Deep release every few years. That's right, on Dhyana Records I have given free rein to my diverse musical interests. I am 100% behind every release, no matter if techno, singer-songwriter, noise, indirock, experimental, ambient... Probably all this was a very important outlet for me to take off the blinkers that made me deal mainly with death metal and grindcore for years.  

What do you think about current grindcore or death metal stuff ? Do you still listen to it or do you notice what is still happening in the scene, including new bands? Do you like bands such as the Finnish Death Toll 80k, who I think are excellent, or do you also like bands like Misery Index, who were founded much later after the end of Ulcerous Phlegm ?

To be quite honest, the bands you mentioned don't mean anything to me now. Since I put together the compilation LP "Face The Consequences" last year, on which 43 bands play covers of the U.P.-song "Consequence", I did come across some bands of the younger generation, but I'm certainly far away from a full understanding. However, I am already interested in bands that manage to put a new face on the old style by mixing grindcore elements with other styles. Grindcore used to be something innovative.

The problem I have with metal is that a lot of it sounds too slick nowadays. For my taste, it has to be edgy in some way so that it sticks in the ear.

In general, grindcore and death metal make up at most 5 % of my current music consumption.

The next question follows concerns this sampler: did you choose the bands and if so, according to what criteria ? Or did the bands come to you ? And did all the musicians involved know Ulcerous Phlegm beforehand, I ask, because some of the styles are quite far away from grind and metal...did some of the artists like Jesus Jackson and the Grenzlandreiter come about through the common home Augsburg ? According to Discogs, a Finnish cellist is also represented, as well as Martyn Schmidt, who I didn't know before, do you want to say something about these individual artists and bands that are particularly close to your heart? The whole thing also reminds me of the "Tribute to Japanische Kampfhörspiele" (do you know them ?) sampler, which also contained stylistically quite different bands...

I like the comparison with the Japanische Kampfhörspiele tribute! But my real inspiration was Suzanne Vega, who many years ago put together an LP exclusively covering her hit "Tom's Diner". Also in the most diverse genres. I collected a total of 65 cover versions of the song Consequence and put the 43 best or most interesting ones on the record in my opinion. Jesus Jackson And die Grenzlandreiter are friends of ours, with whom we have often played together in our current band Deep. The song structure of "Consequence" makes a singer-songwriter version a natural choice. The vocal artist Martyn Schmidt is also a long-time companion of mine. Many years ago he was my editor-in-chief when I wrote reviews for the magazine "Intro". And he is a big Ulcerous Phlegm fan. This was my chance to finally get a version of the song where you can understand the lyrics. Each of the 43 versions has grown on me in its own way, although I personally like the avant-garde approach or a modification into another, one's own musical style better than a 1:1 copy. For many, "Consequence" is a song by Gut, whose cover version made our original so famous in the first place. Which I find very funny, because the lyrics are about environmental protection, which is not really a priority nr. one topic of porno grinders...

But there were also some Ulcerous Phlegm cover versions offside or long before this sampler. Do you have an overview of which bands have covered you over the decades?

The Consequence contributions that I put on the compilation LP are from the years 1992 to 2017, they were not recorded especially for the sampler. I couldn't find any contact for many of the bands, so some of them still don't know about their "luck". For fun, I sorted the "Consequence" cover versions chronologically. The result was that the song was covered most often in the mid-90s. Then there was a Consequence recession before a progression started at the beginning of the 00s. The most recent contribution was recorded a few days before the pressing date without me commissioning it. That was a funny last-minute action.

For fun, may I ask the interviewer a short question in between? If so: Which song did you get to know Ulcerous Phlegm with and since I assume you have the Power It Up discography: Which song do you think is the best?  

After listening to the discography again consciously, I like "Godless" very much ! That slow grooving slurping middle part is great !

Ah, okay. This is also one of the few parts where the snare, which is otherwise mixed way too loud on this EP, fits quite well.

My next question would be: did Ulcerous Phlegm ever play abroad ? And did you ever think about uploading the old live recordings to bandcamp ?

We had a really cool gig once in the Czech Republic, in a nuclear shelter. The sound was unbelievable: low room and all concrete - a single death reverb, haha ! Apart from that, we never got out of the German-speaking countries. I remember two cool weekend gigs that I plugged together in my youthful recklessness without checking the distance between the two venues beforehand. Friday night in French-speaking Switzerland with Samael and Saturday in Vienna at the Arena (with Disharmonic Orchestra among others).

Some time ago I uploaded all my old video recordings to youtube. The old live tapes... hm, yes, if someone is interested, then I could tackle that.

I found out through a little research that you were often played by a certain Max Schönherr in a program called "Zündfunk" on Bayern 2 and that you were even allowed to present a program there once and "provide" it with music - I neither know this program nor the presenter, but found the story interesting and a Google search revealed that Max Schönherr now lives in Cologne (in my home town), on his homepage he also writes something about those times, about very conservative radio bosses...what are your memories of that?

I have been listening to the program "Zündfunk" since I was 12 years old. I listened to it today as well. When we recorded our demo in 1989, it was important to me to send a copy to Bayerischer Rundfunk as well. "What the Danube meadows produce..." was Max Schönherr's introduction and then he played five songs from the demo because they are so short. That was the starting signal to take Ulcerous Phlegm a bit more seriously, because after that we got enquiries from a label and lots of fan mail, especially from the former German Democratic Republic.

Max Schönherr is a very likeable person, I appreciate him a lot. About one or two years after the demo airplay, he invited my friend Markus, who wrote the lyrics for the first Ulcerous Phlegm EP, his brother and me to the studio to create an hour of music for Zündfunk. It was great fun.

So, now I've asked pretty much everything that came to mind. It was one of the longest and most interesting interviews I've ever conducted. The last question: That was all about a quarter of a century ago. What feelings do you have when you think back to that time ? Nostalgia? Would you do things differently if Ulcerous Phlegm existed today? Why did you break up back then and who of the former members do you still have contact with today ? And apart from that: Thank you very much for the interesting interview and the last words, whatever else you want to say, are yours !

I am happy to return the compliment. Rarely have I been interviewed by someone who knows so much and who has done the appropriate research. Yes, it was a lot of fun!

I am just as happy that the time with Ulcerous Phlegm existed for me as I am that it eventually ended. I can't imagine that Ulcerous Phlegm would still exist today, nor do I want to. I am glad that I met people back then whose friendships have lasted until today.

In the final phase we were two bands at the same time. We were practising with Ulcerous Phlegm and a few hours later Howie joined as singer. Kreso and I tuned our instruments 5 frets higher again, were called "Inferno" and played hardcore punk. The background was that our second drummer Max was also a founding member of these punks from the Fugger or Fucker city and now they were trying to revive this band. Actually, it was nonsense, because at a certain point, everything had been said about Inferno and Ulcerous Phlegm and nothing innovative could be achieved. I still have contact with Kreso (guitar and vocals with U.P.) from time to time and recently also with Blinki (1st drummer and style-defining founding member of U.P.). Who knows, maybe they'll make it to the KultKino Film Festival in June 2018, then we could all get together for a nice drink. It would be nice if it works out!