Towards the end of last year, the great book "Rotting Ways to Misery: the history of Finnish death metal" was published via Cult never dies. The book, named after a demo by Sentenced, impresses with well-researched facts and provides deep insights into Finnish death metal, which - in contrast to its Swedish equivalent - never became so popular. A good reason to talk to the two authors Markus Makkonen and Kim Strömsholm. Both have been members of the scene for many years and are known for bands like Hooded Menace, Sadistik Forest and Nerve Saw (Markus) and for their membership in Festerday, ...And Oceans, O or the black pop / electro formation Black Acid World (Kim). Have fun diving into the obscure depths where the rotten, slimy monstrosity of Finnish death metal originated back then and is still wreaking havoc today.
Hi, my name is Markus Makkonen, co-author of Rotting Ways to Misery. It can be said that we both had the idea for this kind of a book. Both separately. I personally started planning the blueprint for this book around 2015 and collecting materials for it around 2016. Kim got in contact around 2017 and told he was planning a same type of a literary work himself. We quickly decided that instead of two similar books, we'd rather join forces and release a thorough work together. I knew Kim through his music. Went to see ...And Oceans play already in the 90's, but we really did not talk before we started our conversation about the book. Rotting Ways got started as there were so many stories that needed to be told and nobody was writing them down. It took about five years to plan, execute and finish it.
My name is Kim Strömsholm, co-author of Rotting Ways to Misery. I was juggling with the idea of making a book like this some years earlier when we were re-forming Festerday, and that was when I heard that Markus had this same kind of an idea. It was good to make it together instead of alone because I don't think this book would yet be finalized if we would've worked by ourselves. And doing it together also gave oppurtunities for different features.
Okay, thanks. To what extent do you think the "Swedish Death Metal" book by Daniel Ekeroth gave you inspiration ? And- in the book you mention the hardly existing dividing line between Death and Black Metal in the early days of the scene- did the book "The Devil's cradle-the story of Finnish Black Metal" in which Beherit, Archgoat and Impaled Nazarene for example are discussed in detail, lead to the fact that you didn't give more space to these bands ? Do you know "Extremity retained-notes from the death metal underground" by Jason Netherton of Misery Index ? Which books about underground metal might have inspired you or served as a model in terms of structure ?
Kim: The Swedish Death Metal book didn't inspire us directly. Of course we checked it out when it was released - and hell yes it is a fine opus - but I wouldn't say it was THE inpiration source for our book. Yes, the black metal bands were already dealt with in detail in "The Devil's cradle" that we decided to leave them be from this more death metal oriented opus. Yes, I am familiar with "Extremity retained" and Jason as well. A fine relase as well!! To me personally I was more intrigued by Feral House releases and old school fanzines.
Markus: As far as the style of the book itself, "Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult" by Dayal Patterson was maybe the biggest inspiration. Also, "Choosing Death" by Albert Mudrian.
As you can read in the book, some people from the early Finnish death metal scene have sadly passed away. Were there people you wanted to interview, but who could no longer be found - especially if they are now living abroad? Or were there also people who didn't want to be associated with their earlier musical works or the scene in general, for whatever reason ?
Kim: Yes actually. There were a few persons that we would've liked to interview, but wasn't capable of doing. I don't recall that anyone would have refused to answer.
What I found very interesting was the change from speed to thrash and then to death metal. I had never heard of this big wave of speed metal in Finland before. The fact that Dave Rotten (mainly known as the singer of Avulsed and operator of Xtreem Music, Repulse Records and Drowned Productions) published a lot of then and now Finnish death was also very revealing. Were there no Finnish labels apart from Spinefarm (and much later) Svart Records, who re-released many earlier things like Demilich and Lucricant as complete discographies ?
Kim: Well, the speed/thrash wave was not really that big as the death and black metal wave was and what it later came to be. There were a few labels in the late 80's and early 90's, later in the mid 90's more prominent labels started to pop up.
Markus: In the 80s Finland did really not have proper music industry, at least as far as importing went. Vast majority of the 80s Finnish bands stayed therefore within the borders of the country. We were so far behind of Sweden, for example, who had had their Abba's and Europe's already. Finnish death metal has remained largely misunderstood and under appreciated here. Many of the labels here would not touch it,like they did embrace thrash metal a bit earlier for example. So, therefore almost everything from Finnish death metal scene was released through small underground labels. Most often in countries outside Finland. Spinefarm records was really marginal until they signed Children of Bodom and Nightwish.
Furthermore, the speed metal boom here lacked visionary artists too. They rather copied the greats of the genre, than created something their own. Therefore they are not as widely remembered as Finnish black and death metal bands.
In Finland, the momentum of death metal stopped around 1994-1995 much more abruptly than in other countries. You cite as reasons that many bands were reorienting themselves musically and, on the other hand, the second wave of black metal with its protagonists was already in full swing. On top of that, there were the usual things that made it difficult for many bands in every country to continue as their members grew up: Obligation to do military service, the beginning of training and studies, girlfriends and the newly won freedom through driving licences and cars. In general, I felt more like Chris Reifert said, that he didn't feel this break so strongly. Of course the black metal boom ruined the career of some death metal bands (some death metal bands on the other hand jumped on the black metal bandwagon), and then grunge came, so metal on a larger scale became less. Nevertheless, there were still a lot of bands internationally that kept going. Thinking back, do you feel this break in the middle of the 90's in Finland was also so blatant at that time? And afterwards: Is that also the reason why Adramelech didn't get such a big place in the book, because they only released their debut in 1996? I was a bit surprised, because when it comes to pure death Metal in Finland, Demigod, Demilich, Funebre and Adramelech are often mentioned (Amorphis and Sentenced partly not, because they were considered pure death Metal only at the beginning of their career).
Markus: Around 1995, when I started my first death metal band, the whole movement here was dead. It was totally in the very marginal, even in the underground perspective. So yeah, the demise was very much reality in Finland. Black metal became quite fast a dominating phenomenon and here it did not tolerate death or thrash metal. To a great personal disappointment to many. Adramelech were always far more appreciated outside Finland, than here. It must be, as you mentioned, due to the fact their debut came out that late. In Finland, nobody cared about death metal any more in 1996. Unfortunately.
What I found interesting-as a quintessence of the book, so to speak-was the high creativity of Finnish bands, often combined with a short lifespan. The typical thing about Finnish death metal, despite often unifying features like a certain obscurity and extravagance and a dark threatening atmosphere, is the search for individualism. As someone said in the book; "The lack of definition brings the definition". And that the respective bands did not form new sideprojects for a complete change of style, but released this under the old band name.I also remember that Jon Nödtveidt lived out his techno ambitions with the project "De Infernali", Beherit in turn the electronic excursions under the name Beherit- then and again with the new album. What could be the reason for this, are Finns not so stuck that they don't have such rigid and strict expectations of a band name or brand ? And then the question: how would you describe the Finnish mentality to outsiders in a short and concise way, if there is such a thing ? What is the lowest common denominator, and are there big regional differences in this respect ?
Markus: Finnish bands have maybe a slightly bigger appreciation for originality and experimentation than some other countries seem to have. Direct copying seems to be ok in some other countries, but here it is often seen as dissapointing. Not sure why it is so, but I guess innovation is held in high regard maybe. This also leads to the phenomenon where it is often seen as a mandatory thing to evolve, rather than stagnate with the past glories. Experimental albums are maybe seen here as evolution, rather than a subject for a completely new band. As far as Finnish mentality goes, I guess we have a certain no bullshit attitude. Speak less, do more. This amplifies the more northern a Finn you are talking to. There are quite large regional differences too, due quite a many historical reasons and it can be heard in a quite a variation of dialects, especially when compared to a quite a small amount of people. We are a varied bunch, with no small talk culture! Haha! When you ask a Finnish person how are you doing, he will literally tell you how he is doing in full detail. As small talk is something we do not understand here.
The role of the then very popular death 'n' roll ,which started with Entombed's album "Wolverine Blues", is also mentioned. Funny that Disgrace with their album Vol 2, which was finally released in 2011 via Svart Records, were considered epigones, although their album was already finished before the release of "Wolverine Blues". "Reflections" by Convulse also went in this direction. But in general, reading the book, it seems to me that Carcass and their early works were probably the most formative influence on the early Finnish scene, right?
Kim: Yes, Carcass had a big impact and a great influencer on most of the early Finnish death metal acts. I heard Carcass at a very young age when we started up Festerday, a name which also was taken from the debut Carcass demo. UK in general had a great influence for many Finnish bands. The reason to this might be their punk/hardcore background, which is pretty similar to the Finnish underground before metal.
I also had to think of that, the closer connection between extreme metal on the one hand and hardcore/punk on the other. Max Cavalera also did a lot of promotion for bands like Kaaos, Rattus or Riistetyt by wearing shirts or mentioning them in interviews. Thus, a large metal audience came to know these bands, who otherwise probably had never even heard these names. Funnily enough, Cavalera was not even aware of the ideological differences between a band like Hellhammer on the one hand or a band like Kaaos on the other, he just had copies of both on a cassette. By the way: is it true that both Rattus and Riistetyt still exist or exist again ?
Kim: Rattus did split up in the late 80s but was reformed sometime 2000 or something. Riisteyt did split up somtime in the middle of the 80s, but reunited in 1991 and have been active ever since.
At the end of the interview, I would like to express my respect once again for this great book and the impressions gained through it. For example, I was not aware before that there was also Finnish Anathema and Finnish Pestilence ! Likewise, I only became aware of the parallels in the sound of At the Gates "The red in the sky is ours" and Sentenced's "North from here" through the reference in the book, although I have owned both albums for decades. Finally, thanks for this trip down memory lane into a great musical subculture, including band pictures in the woods with high white sneakers and the obligatory hair in front of the face. Now two more questions: how much melancholy regarding these long gone wild times came up during the interviews and while writing the book and listening to the old recordings for both of you, but also for the interview partners ? And last but not least, the first morbid Angel album is in a prominent place in Kim's list of thanks. Does that mean "Abominations of desolation" or "Altars of madness" ? Otherwise, let out everything you want to say here !
Kim: The Swedish Death Metal book didn't inspire us directly. Of course we checked it out when it was released - and hell yes it is a fine opus - but I wouldn't say it was THE inpiration source for our book. Yes, the black metal bands were already dealt with in detail in "The Devil's cradle" that we decided to leave them be from this more death metal oriented opus. Yes, I am familiar with "Extremity retained" and Jason as well. A fine relase as well!! To me personally I was more intrigued by Feral House releases and old school fanzines.
Markus: As far as the style of the book itself, "Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult" by Dayal Patterson was maybe the biggest inspiration. Also, "Choosing Death" by Albert Mudrian.
Kim: Yes actually. There were a few persons that we would've liked to interview, but wasn't capable of doing. I don't recall that anyone would have refused to answer.
Markus: I'd say 95% of the people we asked to be interviewed said yes. Only a handful refused and mostly due very hazy memories of the actual era. It took me a bit of effort to reach members of Funebre as they were no longer involved with metal scene after the first album. Still, it was even more rewarding to reach them and have them interviewed.
What I have to say from my German point of view is that this book was much more interesting and valuable than the "Swedish Death Metal" book. Of course Daniel Ekeroth did an excellent job, but I say this because most people here in the scene already knew so much about Swedish Death Metal anyway, I discovered the big Swedish names Grave, Dismember, Unleashed and Entombed, but also At the Gates around 1991-1993, Finnish Death Metal much, much later. And even though many names like Demigod, Demilich, Lubricant, Purtenance, Thergothon and Adramelech have always been known somewhere, it is only after reading this book that I can really put them into context. I found it very interesting that Swedish death metal as an inspiration and role model only really influenced the Finnish bands of the second wave. What new insights did you gain in the course of your work, or were there things that only became clear to you through this book?
Kim: A lot of things came to light that we were not aware of, most of them more in detail and specified. A lot of stories came up during interviews, things that bands hadn't really told or even thought about for a loooong time.
Markus: Thank you for your comment! It feels great to hear such things as we really were aiming to paint a thorough picture of maybe a bit less talked about subject. Hearing things like your kind words assure us we might have actually reached it too. Guess the biggest personal revelation was how young everybody were at the time in the scene. The oldest guys were 20 years of age and the majority not able to drive a car or buy alcohol. And of Swedish bands... they did influence Finnish bands, but maybe in a mirror image manner. As Swedish bands all sounded like each other, Finnish bands made sure they all sounded different in the early scene.
What I have to say from my German point of view is that this book was much more interesting and valuable than the "Swedish Death Metal" book. Of course Daniel Ekeroth did an excellent job, but I say this because most people here in the scene already knew so much about Swedish Death Metal anyway, I discovered the big Swedish names Grave, Dismember, Unleashed and Entombed, but also At the Gates around 1991-1993, Finnish Death Metal much, much later. And even though many names like Demigod, Demilich, Lubricant, Purtenance, Thergothon and Adramelech have always been known somewhere, it is only after reading this book that I can really put them into context. I found it very interesting that Swedish death metal as an inspiration and role model only really influenced the Finnish bands of the second wave. What new insights did you gain in the course of your work, or were there things that only became clear to you through this book?
Kim: A lot of things came to light that we were not aware of, most of them more in detail and specified. A lot of stories came up during interviews, things that bands hadn't really told or even thought about for a loooong time.
Markus: Thank you for your comment! It feels great to hear such things as we really were aiming to paint a thorough picture of maybe a bit less talked about subject. Hearing things like your kind words assure us we might have actually reached it too. Guess the biggest personal revelation was how young everybody were at the time in the scene. The oldest guys were 20 years of age and the majority not able to drive a car or buy alcohol. And of Swedish bands... they did influence Finnish bands, but maybe in a mirror image manner. As Swedish bands all sounded like each other, Finnish bands made sure they all sounded different in the early scene.
Kim: Well, the speed/thrash wave was not really that big as the death and black metal wave was and what it later came to be. There were a few labels in the late 80's and early 90's, later in the mid 90's more prominent labels started to pop up.
Markus: In the 80s Finland did really not have proper music industry, at least as far as importing went. Vast majority of the 80s Finnish bands stayed therefore within the borders of the country. We were so far behind of Sweden, for example, who had had their Abba's and Europe's already. Finnish death metal has remained largely misunderstood and under appreciated here. Many of the labels here would not touch it,like they did embrace thrash metal a bit earlier for example. So, therefore almost everything from Finnish death metal scene was released through small underground labels. Most often in countries outside Finland. Spinefarm records was really marginal until they signed Children of Bodom and Nightwish.
Furthermore, the speed metal boom here lacked visionary artists too. They rather copied the greats of the genre, than created something their own. Therefore they are not as widely remembered as Finnish black and death metal bands.
In Finland, the momentum of death metal stopped around 1994-1995 much more abruptly than in other countries. You cite as reasons that many bands were reorienting themselves musically and, on the other hand, the second wave of black metal with its protagonists was already in full swing. On top of that, there were the usual things that made it difficult for many bands in every country to continue as their members grew up: Obligation to do military service, the beginning of training and studies, girlfriends and the newly won freedom through driving licences and cars. In general, I felt more like Chris Reifert said, that he didn't feel this break so strongly. Of course the black metal boom ruined the career of some death metal bands (some death metal bands on the other hand jumped on the black metal bandwagon), and then grunge came, so metal on a larger scale became less. Nevertheless, there were still a lot of bands internationally that kept going. Thinking back, do you feel this break in the middle of the 90's in Finland was also so blatant at that time? And afterwards: Is that also the reason why Adramelech didn't get such a big place in the book, because they only released their debut in 1996? I was a bit surprised, because when it comes to pure death Metal in Finland, Demigod, Demilich, Funebre and Adramelech are often mentioned (Amorphis and Sentenced partly not, because they were considered pure death Metal only at the beginning of their career).
Markus: Around 1995, when I started my first death metal band, the whole movement here was dead. It was totally in the very marginal, even in the underground perspective. So yeah, the demise was very much reality in Finland. Black metal became quite fast a dominating phenomenon and here it did not tolerate death or thrash metal. To a great personal disappointment to many. Adramelech were always far more appreciated outside Finland, than here. It must be, as you mentioned, due to the fact their debut came out that late. In Finland, nobody cared about death metal any more in 1996. Unfortunately.
What I found interesting-as a quintessence of the book, so to speak-was the high creativity of Finnish bands, often combined with a short lifespan. The typical thing about Finnish death metal, despite often unifying features like a certain obscurity and extravagance and a dark threatening atmosphere, is the search for individualism. As someone said in the book; "The lack of definition brings the definition". And that the respective bands did not form new sideprojects for a complete change of style, but released this under the old band name.I also remember that Jon Nödtveidt lived out his techno ambitions with the project "De Infernali", Beherit in turn the electronic excursions under the name Beherit- then and again with the new album. What could be the reason for this, are Finns not so stuck that they don't have such rigid and strict expectations of a band name or brand ? And then the question: how would you describe the Finnish mentality to outsiders in a short and concise way, if there is such a thing ? What is the lowest common denominator, and are there big regional differences in this respect ?
Markus: Finnish bands have maybe a slightly bigger appreciation for originality and experimentation than some other countries seem to have. Direct copying seems to be ok in some other countries, but here it is often seen as dissapointing. Not sure why it is so, but I guess innovation is held in high regard maybe. This also leads to the phenomenon where it is often seen as a mandatory thing to evolve, rather than stagnate with the past glories. Experimental albums are maybe seen here as evolution, rather than a subject for a completely new band. As far as Finnish mentality goes, I guess we have a certain no bullshit attitude. Speak less, do more. This amplifies the more northern a Finn you are talking to. There are quite large regional differences too, due quite a many historical reasons and it can be heard in a quite a variation of dialects, especially when compared to a quite a small amount of people. We are a varied bunch, with no small talk culture! Haha! When you ask a Finnish person how are you doing, he will literally tell you how he is doing in full detail. As small talk is something we do not understand here.
Kim: Yes, Carcass had a big impact and a great influencer on most of the early Finnish death metal acts. I heard Carcass at a very young age when we started up Festerday, a name which also was taken from the debut Carcass demo. UK in general had a great influence for many Finnish bands. The reason to this might be their punk/hardcore background, which is pretty similar to the Finnish underground before metal.
I also had to think of that, the closer connection between extreme metal on the one hand and hardcore/punk on the other. Max Cavalera also did a lot of promotion for bands like Kaaos, Rattus or Riistetyt by wearing shirts or mentioning them in interviews. Thus, a large metal audience came to know these bands, who otherwise probably had never even heard these names. Funnily enough, Cavalera was not even aware of the ideological differences between a band like Hellhammer on the one hand or a band like Kaaos on the other, he just had copies of both on a cassette. By the way: is it true that both Rattus and Riistetyt still exist or exist again ?
Kim: Rattus did split up in the late 80s but was reformed sometime 2000 or something. Riisteyt did split up somtime in the middle of the 80s, but reunited in 1991 and have been active ever since.
At the end of the interview, I would like to express my respect once again for this great book and the impressions gained through it. For example, I was not aware before that there was also Finnish Anathema and Finnish Pestilence ! Likewise, I only became aware of the parallels in the sound of At the Gates "The red in the sky is ours" and Sentenced's "North from here" through the reference in the book, although I have owned both albums for decades. Finally, thanks for this trip down memory lane into a great musical subculture, including band pictures in the woods with high white sneakers and the obligatory hair in front of the face. Now two more questions: how much melancholy regarding these long gone wild times came up during the interviews and while writing the book and listening to the old recordings for both of you, but also for the interview partners ? And last but not least, the first morbid Angel album is in a prominent place in Kim's list of thanks. Does that mean "Abominations of desolation" or "Altars of madness" ? Otherwise, let out everything you want to say here !
Kim: Surely there were many memorable moments during the whole process, but even more when bands received the book and actually read what the wave really contained. That's when the appreciation and truth really came out. That means "Altars of Madness": the one and true 10/10 death metal album. Thanks for the interview and chat.
Markus: As people, I think me and Kim are not big dwellers in the past. Instead of sadness for the bygone times, there was maybe more joy for listening all these records and tapes again. And this is the message we've heard from many musicians as well, how they had to dig up all the tapes again and so forth. This is when we knew we had achieved what we were after the first place. Thank you for this chat! And above all - Thanks for reading the book and really paying attention to details! All the very best.
Markus: As people, I think me and Kim are not big dwellers in the past. Instead of sadness for the bygone times, there was maybe more joy for listening all these records and tapes again. And this is the message we've heard from many musicians as well, how they had to dig up all the tapes again and so forth. This is when we knew we had achieved what we were after the first place. Thank you for this chat! And above all - Thanks for reading the book and really paying attention to details! All the very best.
Cross-references:
Death Toll 80k are also mentioned in the book with their high quality grindcore - read an interview with the band here.
Kat "Shevil" Gilham, asked for a comment in the book as a UK scene icon, plays and played in many bands, among others Thronehammer, Uncoffined, Lucifer's Chalice,Winds of Genocide and Blessed Realm. Read the interview here.
