"All the lyrics of the album point to one direction: death !"
Hey Wannes, first of all congratulations for the great new album! Can you tell us something about the creative process concerning the creation of the new album? How were the reactions concerning „Spectre of the Eight Ropes“ in general ?
Thank you very much! Glad to hear you enjoy the album. I haven’t read that many reviews (yet), but those which caught my eye, are very much favourable for the band. It’s great to see people like the album. For sure, we create the music for ourselves first, but there’s no need to deny it’s satisfying when “Spectre…” receives positive reactions. We worked very hard to make this album happen. For a long time it wasn’t even sure if we would record a full length ever, but we made it happen and that’s something I feel very proud of. It’s truly a creation of dedication and hard work, not to forget inspiration. The road of creating “Spectre…” is very long one. In the beginning, it was uncertain what path to walk. After the “Five Candles burning red” MCD we weren’t sure what the next step would be. For sure we wanted to compose a new album. I always feel disappointed we weren’t able to create more full length albums for Pentacle, but I know the reasons why it didn’t happen and there’s little use to ponder too much about it. We decided to start writing new material and see how this would develop. A new Pentacle release could have been everything something in between an official rehearsal tape and a new full length album. After a long time rehearsing (I think it was a couple of years) we had written three new songs and at that point I decided to alter course. I was tired of little direction we followed and decided the next release would become a full length album and nothing else. This is what I wanted achieve and it turned into our focus point. I booked the studio with the knowledge I had to write five additional songs and all the lyrics. Not only that, we had to rehearse them as well to be able to record the material. This was a very big challenge for me personally as I am no fast songwriter. It can take ages to come up with decent stuff and now I had a deadline to catch. And a heavy one is was! So, I put on a very tight working schedule for myself. I wanted to create a new song every month: two weeks to come up with the riffs and arrangements and two weeks to rehearse it as a band. Then forward to the next one. And next one. And next one etc.
After the songs were written, I had two months to come up with a decent lyrical concept and to write the actual words themselves. Not to forget to rehearse them with the songs, so I would enter the studio prepared. This was not always the case with previous sessions, hehe… I did have a cover track in mind (a totally different one than the Necrophagia song which ended up as bonus track on the CD), but I cancelled it, because we needed time to concentrate on our own songs. We were hard pressed to get the songs tight and we barely made it. In retrospect, some extra months would have benefited the tightness of the material, but we had to do with the time available.
After the lyrical direction was set, I needed a suitable setting for the photo shoot. As always it was a bit of a hassle to find something fitting, but lucky the idea was mentioned to conduct the session at a museum. We approached Bevrijdende Vleugels (aka Wings of Liberation) and they were very cooperative in helping us out. A volunteer guided us through the museum and there were little restrictions of what we could do or not, so the session turned out very productive. We did another session at our rehearsal room as well to be able to approach the visual concept from different angles. I will talk about the cover a little bit later on in this interview.
Yes, I do understand what you are trying to say. We are definite in league with acts like Mortem, Ares Kingdom, Sadistic Intent, Headhunter D.C. and other like-minded bands. On a personal level, I don’t feel very much connected to the old school Death Metal wave these days. Never did, to be honest, because it implies we are a band in the vein of the second wave of Death Metal which was one of the reasons why we actually started the band at all, yet with a different frame of mind. We weren’t interested in becoming the new Autopsy/Morbid Angel/Obituary/Pestilence/Carcass etc.
Though we really enjoyed the first offerings of such bands, we felt far more connected to the originators of the scene like Hellhammer/ Celtic Frost/Possessed/Venom/Bathory/Destruction/Death/
Repulsion/Slaughter/Necrophagia/Deathstrike/Master/Messiah etc.
Or the classic demo acts which never went very far like Necrovore/Pentagram (CH)/Samhain/DesExult, Mefisto, Poison (GER) and Mutilated. Those bands are the true musical foundation of Pentacle and that was our goal as a band: not to ride the wave of the (at that time) new Death Metal acts, but to honour the bands which started it all. There lies a very distinct difference between us and many other bands starting at the same time around 1989.
On the other hand, the early demo (!) output of the second wave of Death Metal was a very exciting time as well which spawned forth many, many killer tapes/EP’s. It was amazing to hear so many great acts from all around the globe and this influenced the band for sure. I bought many tapes and EP’s back in the days and many are still gold in my ears. It’s just impossible to ignore the excitement and energy of these outputs by Atomic Aggressor, Treblinka, Grave, Amputation, Paradise Lost, Rigor Mortis/Immolation, Merciless, Rotting Christ, Asphyx, Nihilist/Entombed, Delirium, Blasphemy, Samael, Gorefest, Master’s Hammer, Vader, Sinister, R.U. Dead?, Dead Head, Massacra, Invocator, Varathron, Sinoath, Pandemonium, Grotesque and many, many more. Combine these releases with the classic demo’s/rehearsals/live tapes/records of the first wave and you have a very strong source of inspiration for some guys from The Netherlands. If you ask me, Pentacle is a product of these two waves. And I do understand people connect us with the second record (!) wave as these bands were influenced by the same bands as we were/are, but I don’t feel a part of that scene. I tend to think Pentacle runs its own timeline, whatever is going on in the international scene.
“Spectre…” is a full concept album about the Siege of Malta. It’s a different from “Under the Black Cross” as I didn’t follow a strict timeline. I felt it was time to use something different as I didn’t want to repeat myself. Rather, I picked up eight different topics connected with the siege and went from there. I wanted each lyrical theme fit to the vibe of the music, so I added the lyrics randomly to the songs. Historical wise, the opening song of the album (“Behold…”) features the earliest topic of the Siege, but this was a mere coincidence. The chaotic vibe of the song fitted the theme best, the same with “Bound by Death’s Robes” or “The Fury of Retribution” as all three songs deal with air combat, though there’s a huge difference in the lyrical essence of the three songs. After I decided I wanted to use the Siege of Malta as a subject and had come up with the eight different themes, I read two to three books about each theme. After I had finished reading on a certain topic, I wrote down the lyrics very spontaneous, straight after closing the last book. I didn’t want to retell the original story as there was just way too much information to use and one can better pick one of the books written on these subjects, but I wanted to get hold of the energy, emotions, atmosphere etc. and transform them into a Death Metal context full of anger, aggression, passion and rage. Somehow, I tried to get hold of this particular “lust for blood” in certain songs. Again, “The Fury of Retribution” and “Bound by Death Robes” are the best example as they are written from a very primal point of view. Songs like “Now spit forth Death”, “I Christen thee Doom” or “Mesmerizing Depths…” have a more observing nature. Like a bystander who is watching the scene and writes down his/her observations.
And for sure the cover is connected to the lyrical concept, but again not as close as with some of our earlier releases. After the decision was made which direction to go to, I did a lot of brainstorming with our artist Manuel Tinnemans to see what we would come up with. To get the creativity flowing, we sent each other many photos connected with the Siege. We wanted to get a certain basic idea where to start. Manuel came up the foundation of the artwork after he had seen a photo with eight Maltese children playing around/sitting upon a downed German aircraft. Of course he turned it into a true creation of his own and added a lot of subtle details. Except for the diversity of the “victims” I had little input this time. The artwork is really Manuel’s creation, very much different from the previous one he did for us (the split w/Sadistic Intent). The vibe is very much different, but that’s a good thing. I would hate to see if Manuel would play the same trick over and over again.
The eight songs featured on the album and the eight ropes to be seen on the cover are very much linked with each other. The ropes symbolize the premature end of all parties involved: allied, axis and Maltese. All these people perished during the conflict, no matter which nationality they had or political convictions they belonged to. All the lyrics of the album point to one direction: death. The “Spectre of the Eight Robes” is synonymous to the shrouded entity: the embodiment of the end of this earthly existence. But it refers as a remembrance to the casualties of this conflict as well. This artwork is far more ethereal than the reality-based covers of before. Sure, there are many references to the “real” world, but we are talking about a spectre here. A ghostly outer-world apparition haunting the memories of the survivors, but also carries a message for those who are open to it…
Oh yes, I devour many books on the subject (I read every day) and try to visit as many museums or former battlefields as possible. I love to watch documentaries or movies related to WW2 combat history. My last holiday lasted for four days and I managed to visit six places of interest. I can tell you, I really take my time to be able to digest what I see and read, so I am busy for hours to get fully involved in my surroundings. I am glad to have an understanding wife, so she takes care of the kids while I am “beyond”, so to speak. Special places of interest for recommendation? Now you are really asking me something… That is a very hard question to answer as there are many sites to be seen and I am sure I haven’t seen even 1% of what is there to be seen on this planet. Futile quest, hehehe… I enjoy the less “commercial” sites, you know. The personal collection where every item has a story to tell, but a good museum is a good museum and there are many around worthy of everyone’s support.
No, I haven’t visited Verdun yet. My main interest is WW2, but a couple of months ago I visited Yper and its surroundings and it was rather impressive sight to be seen, to be honest. It made a big impact upon me.
No German gigs are lined up, yet. I was working on a tour, but unfortunate we are not able to make it happen, so we will concentrate on the usual weekend gigs. It has been ages ago since we shared the stage with Desaster. I can’t remember last time we did, but I think it was Bamberg, their anniversary show where they also recorded the live DVD/album. That was a cool gig. A special night for sure. It would be great to do some gigs together. We always raised the dead together, so why not? Count me in!
The new album arrived the day before the gig in Wermelskirchen, so we were very fortunate to present it to the crowd. I have visited other release shows without the particular album being available to the public which is always an unfortunate case, so I was very glad the album was ready to go! I remember being really satisfied with the outcome when I laid my sight and hands on the CD and LP for the very first time. Sure, as I came up with the layout I knew what to expect, but when one holds the end result in your hands and it looks better than expected…that’s a rare case. A moment I recall vividly. About the gig in Wermelskirchen, it was great to see there was still a crowd waiting for us as we were the last band on the second night, so I expected everyone to be “drunk, deaf and on their way home”, but I was proven wrong, which was damn cool. They were really into it which was very supporting towards the band. Pentacle was the most wimpy band of the evening, I can tell you that. All the other bands were way more brutal, but our music is more “bangable”, hahaha! The gig with Acrostichon was special to me as it was our “home crowd” and Dutch release show of “Spectre…”. Tilburg has always been kind to us and there were many, many familiar faces to be seen. I love The Little Devil as it offers a very distinctive vibe. Small and intimate, a true club gig. Warm and sweaty. Plus Acrostichon are good friends of ours and we share a long history together. It’s always a pleasure to share the stage with these guys and girl. Love to have them around and they still kick ass! Both gigs were sold out which was very cool for a band like us. I mean, we’re no hyped act, so it was nice to perform for a full house of interested people. It’s not always like this, I can tell you that.
It’s always a bit weird to perform new songs live for the very first time and as we included four new songs, it was a big part of the set list. But hey, it was a release show, so we had to play some new stuff, right? It was nice to see the crowd enjoyed it. For sure they hold back when we played the new songs, but that’s understandable. I would react the same. Overall, a remarkable weekend with fond memories!
Well, I have a theory about this matter. Most people in The Netherlands are open towards new developments. Innovation runs high in our country and is picked up rather fast. When you take a look at “popular” music, The Netherlands was/is (?) often a starting point for many foreign bands. New trends are welcomed. Many people are very much open minded. Maybe it has something to do with the trade background of our country. We are very much international orientated, so we get in contact with many aspects of foreign influence. Hard Rock/Heavy Metal did find a very fertile ground in The Netherlands very early on. When Death Metal became popular, every village had its scene, so to speak. There were bands everywhere. I remember the talk about “the plague called the local Death Metal band” phenomenon. Just imagine… We are a small country with a strong infrastructure. In about three hours one can travel from the north to the south. It’s easy to travel around with public transport (though it has its limitations, obviously). A new trend runs fast in such a small country, open towards something exciting. There were record shops everywhere, so it was easy to order and/or pick up the record of your favourite artist. We had heavy stuff on national radio through Stampij and Vara’s Vuurwerk. Aardschok magazine was supplying the hungry Metal masses with the necessary information on all kind of bands. It was rather easy to be exposed to Metal. There was a rabid crowd waiting for heavy stuff, ready to raise the bars of extremity. This spawned a lot of bands too. With so many elements of inspiration around and an infrastructure ready to supply those who want to start shredding themselves, it’s rather obvious our country brought forth so many bands. There were many opportunities for bands to perform live. With support from the government, there was a strong scene with youth clubs and concert venues, big and small, available for amateur and professional gigs.
The diversity of the Dutch scene was always one of its major strong points. All bands you mentioned, don’t sound alike. Sure, there’s some “common ground” as most of these guys all enjoy the same classic bands and have the same records at home and one gets inspired through such sounds. Nothing wrong with that, but there was nothing like a “Swedish” sound in The Netherlands.
Sure, all this let to the saturation of the scene in the early-mid 90’s. There was just too much going on, but this was a worldwide phenomenon. Just too many bands/records/gigs etc. The audience wasn’t really into it anymore. Bands started to change their sound or split up. Only the selected few remained loyal to their original sound or some new bands picked up the tradition and went from there.
I find this a difficult question to answer as I can’t speak for the rest of the Dutch population. I mean, how could I represent the opinion of The Netherlands concerning this matter without any decent “research”? It wouldn’t make any sense to try to speak for all Dutch citizens, so I rather keep the focus more limited yet personal to be able to give you a decent answer. I for myself have a good relation with Germany, if I may say so. Every time I visit your country for whatever reason, people are polite and helpful. They are interested in a good conversation related to all kind of different topics. I like the food, the surroundings and the overall Metal Madness in Germany. Sure, there are morons everywhere on this planet and that means your country as well, but The Netherlands has its fair share of idiots too. No doubt about that! I always enjoy visiting Germany and there’s still a lot to explore for me personally.
After being part of the scene for so long, are you still hungry for discovering new bands? I mean the times as a teenager ,exploring the whole new thing are over, but I like it if people can save some kind of youthful enthusiasm. And which part do you think plays the internet in today’s scene, in positive and negative way?
Oh yes, I still check out new releases/bands on the internet and when I enjoy them, I buy the items for sure. I love to listen to upcoming material from whatever band on the net. Somehow, I compare it to the old visit to the record shop and listen to the records which seem interesting to you. The experience is different and nothing beats the nostalgic feeling of the good old times, but the essence isn’t that different: you listen to a record and when you like it, one buys it. At the record shop one takes the album straight away while online you have to order it and it takes a while before you are able to hold it in your hands. And sure, online you are able to listen to all the music available on world, while in a record shop it is far more selected. I totally prefer the last one as it more of an “experience” as they tend to say these days. You never know what to expect. On the other hand, it’s great to be able to listen to and explore music from all around the globe at home or wherever you are. I thoroughly enjoy this. It’s much easier to spread and promote music through the net. One click and there you go! On the other hand, the point of saturation is very, very close at hand. Personally, I don’t feel the need to explore the net every day. As said before, when I have found a release I enjoy, I buy it and wait until it arrives to get more acquainted with it. During that period of time or even after the arrival of the new item(s), I rarely listen to additional new material through the internet. There’s just so much to be found, I kind of ‘protect” myself from oversaturation, because I don’t want to get burned out on new music. There are many killer bands around which deserve one’s support, but it’s not realistic anymore to give them all a try. Also, I don’t feel the need to “hear and/or buy them all” anymore. Yes, in the 80’s and early 90’s I wanted to collect all the items I thought were mandatory, but I had to let go as there were just too many bands/releases around and in all honesty, as a fan I wasn’t/am interested in all these off spins or “inspired by…” bands. For example, there are people around who are manic for the Swedish sound and buy everything with the famous chainsaw sound. For me, after “Left Hand Path”, “Dark Recollections” was already enough. “Strappado” beats them all, hahaha! You know what I mean? I don’t need the 100th copy of (…), you know. Right now, I can’t come up with any band which beat the original. They are the first and remain (in my ears, that is) always the best. Period. All these bands which are inspired by Morbid Angel… There’s only one the best and that’s the original. No copycat is being able to top classics like “Abominations…” or “Altars…”. And there are many, many other examples around as well which tell the same tale. Back to your original question. As I feel this way about new releases, I try to keep the new input limited to keep it enjoyable. I don’t buy to collect (save for a few exceptions), but to enjoy them. And as you said, it’s not possible to listen to music anymore the same way as one was a teenager. That particular excitement is for most part gone, which is rather regrettable as it was great to freak out in the front of your stereo with a new record or tape. I guess it’s a case of “heard it all”? The old grumpy guy who says the demo remains the best (which often is, hahaha)? Nah, it’s a bit from both worlds. Yes, I am the guy who often thinks the early outputs of a band are the best, but on the other side I am still able to enjoy new bands or releases. It’s great to listen to a new band full of power and aggression. Just like the last demo tape from Black Beast. It really shreds! South American madness! Or the album by Oath of Cruelty. Total extreme Deathrash!
Can you recommend some cool print zines from the Netherlands, old or new?
The first issues of Mortician Mag will always remain my favourite. Great content during an exciting time! For the rest I would like to mention The Truth Beyond, Numskull, Fear of Life, Thrashdigest, Speedzone, Master of Brutality, Charontaphos, Headbangers Zine, Putrefying Mass or Daemonium Aeturnus. Those were/are some cool zines around.
The same question concerning relatively unknown or new bands, some special secret tip for the readers of Systematic Desensitization Zine?
Concerning new bands, I can’t answer this question, as I am not that well informed about the current Dutch scene. Talking about old bands and not mentioning the ones you already called out I would recommend Lethargy, Swazafix, Mysto Dysto/Mandator, Disabuse, Dead End, Korsakov, Brainwashing, Morthra, Malignant, Inferno/Silenxce, Second Hell, Sempiternal Deathreign, Mourning, Eternal Solstice, Delirium, Usurper, Necro Schizma, Equimanthorn, Bestial Summoning, Desultory, Excision, Mangled, Lier in Wait, Virulent, Judgement Day, Altar (editor's note: how could I forget about Altar ?! "Youth against Christ" is one of my favourite records) and Obtruncation.
Coming to the end of the interview, please list us your ten all time favourite records and maybe the ten most listened records during the last three months!
It’s impossible to mention only 10 records as that would mean I have to let out some of the most influential records I own, so I took the liberty to change the context of your question a “bit”, haha. With all these lists around during this time of the year, here is mine in random order as it proved too difficult to rank these albums decently. Put me on a deserted island with these personal classics (including a working stereo, hahaha!), my WW2 books, a nice woman, some authentic coastal defences including working artillery and something to eat and drink and I am a happy guy:
Angel Witch – As Above so Below
Asphyx – Embrace the Death & Asphyx
Autopsy – Severed Survival & Mental Funeral
Axegrinder – Rise of the Serpent Men
Bathory – everything up to Hammerheart
Beherit – Drawing down the Moon
Bestial Warlust – Vengeance war ‘till Death
Blasphemy – Fallen Angel of Doom
Bolt Thrower – In Battle there is no Law & Realm of Chaos
Candlemass – Epicus Doomicus Metallicus & Nightfall
Carnivore – Retaliation
Celtic Frost – everything up to Into the Pandemonium & Monotheist
Coroner – R.I.P.
Dark Angel – Darkness Descends & Leave Scars
Darkthrone – A Blaze in the Northern Sky
Death – Scream Bloody Gore & Leprosy
Delirium – Zoouuuhhh
Destruction – everything up to Eternal Devastation
Dream Death – Journey into Mystery
Entombed – Left Hand Path
Exciter – Heavy Metal Maniac
Exodus – Bonded by Blood
Grotesque – Incantation
Hellhammer – Demon Entrails & Apocalyptic Raids
Hobbs’ Angel of Death - Hobbs’ Angel of Death
Holy Terror – Terror and Submission
Immolation – Dawn of Possession
Infernäl Mäjesty – None Shall Defy
Iron Maiden – everything up to Somewhere in Time
King Diamond – Fatal Portrait & Abigail
Kreator – everthing up to Terrible Certainty
Massacre – From Beyond & Inhuman Conditions
Master – Unreleased 1985 album & Master
Master’s Hammer – Ritual
Mayhem – De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
Merciless – The Awakening
Mercyful Fate – Melissa & Don’t Break the Oath
Messiah – Hymn to Abramelin & Extreme Cold Weather
Metallica – everything up to Garage Days Revisited
Morbid Angel – Abomination of Desolations & Altars of Madness
Motörhead – Orgasmatron
Nasty Savage - Indulgence
Necrodeath – Into the Macabre
Necrophagia – Season of the Dead
Nuclear Assault – everything up to Survive
Obituary – Slowly We Rot
Onslaught – The Force
Order From Chaos – Stillbirth Machine
Possessed – everything up to The Eyes of Horror
Repulsion – Horrified
Rotting Christ – Passage to Arcturo & Thy Mighty Contract
Sabbat – History of a Time to Come
Sacrifice – Forward to Termination
Sadus – Illusions
Samael – Worship Him & Blood Ritual
Sarcofago – I.N.R.I. & Rotting
Sempiternal Deathreign – The Spooky Gloom
Sepultura – everything up to Schizophrenia
Sinister – Cross the Styx
Slaughter – Strappado
Slayer – everything up to Reign in Blood
Sodom – everything up to Mortal Way of Live
Tiamat – Sumerian Cry
Venom – everything up to Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
VoïVod – everything up to Killing Technology
Whiplash – Power & Pain
Most played records last weeks
Sepultura – Morbid Visions
Ares Kingdom – By the Light of their Destruction
Imprecation – Damnatio ad Bestias
Mayhem – Daemon
Blood Feast – Kill for Pleasure
Hellhammer – Apocalyptic Raids
Venom – Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
Bathory – Hammerheart
Sempiternal Deathreign – The Spooky Gloom
Nocturnus A.D. - Paradox
The last words are yours!
Thank you very much for your support to the band. It’s very much appreciated! Play “Spectre…” loud during your holidays on Malta! Please feel free to visit our new website at www.pentacle.nl
DON’T FORGET THE ANCIENT FEELING…IT STILL RULES!!!